I support Degler’s theory of racism coming before slavery, but I also agree a little with Fredrickson about them being simultaneous. Having laws written long before slavery became a common practice shows the beginnings of racism. The most significant to me is the record keeping of entry into the colonies. If there was not some sort of racism, why wasn’t a black person’s entry date written, considering how important it is was as an indentured servant? The implication of the missing information signifies the inequality of blacks arriving into Virginia.
The thesis on the origins of slavery and racism that I find the most compelling is Winthrop Jordan's argument. The reason I find his argument the most compelling is because I believe that both slavery and prejudice came about together. Jordan shows this with the statement on page 144 of Vaughan ". . .both slavery and prejudice were causes, both were effects constantly reacting upon each other, dynamically joining hands. . ." Although Jordan would later changes his mind in the book "White over Black", I still agree with most of his premises. Slavery and racism reached a fateful alliance in early America, and this combination of the two would have a stranglehold over the blacks for years to come.
In regards to the origins debate and which I find the most successful argument. I thought out of all the arguments that Winthrop Jordon's thesis was the most logical. In his thesis Jordon argues that "both slavery and prejudice were causes, both were effects constantly reacting upon each other, dynamically joining hangs to hustle the Negro down the road to complete degradation. I believe that this argument is valid because I believe that in order to enslave someone there has to be an extreme prejudice or hate against the race. Through out the readings that we have done this has been exhibited through the various examples of the hate of the African Americans as seen though how the masters treated them and the prejudice against them which is seen through the instances of just because they are African American they have to get a harsher penalty for a wrong doing then a white slave would get.
I believe that Morgan makes a really good point. Racisim seemed to be the only wedge that could go between blacks and whites. This way the planters would not have large scale rebellions involving both slaves and white indentured servants.
I find Morgan the most compelling because he argues that slavery originally didn’t come to North American without the influence of racism and that racism increased later in the 1670s and 1680s as the slave population increased. In this way, racism and slavery evolved together. I think it is pretty clear that Europeans thought they were better than Africans from the start or else they wouldn’t have chained them up and shipped them across the Atlantic. Maybe the feelings that initiated the African slave trade didn’t exactly stem from racism but the other factors that Morgan describes, such as Bacon’s Rebellion and slaves becoming the principal labor force, show how some sort of prejudice eventually led to racism as the slave population increased in North America.
I find Degler's thesis about the origins of slavery and racism the most compelling. He believed that blacks were debased from the start and they were never treated equally. Discrimination preceded slavery long before Africans came to Virginia. Slavery and slave laws, Degler felt, were a reflection of the attitudes of the English people. I also buy into James Ballagh's argument that blacks were technically indentured servants first, because Africans could not legally be slaves unless the law said so.
To me the better argument was Morgans that racism was a product of slavery, which was encouraged and supported by white elites. Morgan argues that the elite developed this as a way to protect themselves from a rebellious servant and slave class. Morgan also adds that racism isn't a nessesity until a large need and population of Africans emerged in the late 1600's.
The Handlins' argument seems to make the most compelling case for me, along with the ideas of Ballagh and Russell. The Handlins' thesis claims that slavery came about late in 1600's, while racism came after the institution of slavery was in place. They mention that the Africans in North America stood out among the other settlers and it is not surprising that the class focused English exploited such differences. I think that racism seemed to come about around the time slavery came to be a legal institution but I do not think it was as strong as Degler claims. The cases of free blacks in early America help promote my belief, and make me think that slavery was not set in stone as soon as Africans set foot into the New World.
I support Morgan's theory of racism coming after Bacon's Rebellion in 1676 but I also believe that Fredrickson has a point with the Societal Racism. I believe that we all have a sense of implict and explicit Racism deep down and that has been there for hundreds of years with the "fear of the unknown" and the "fear of what is known or what is thought to be known". But I also support Morgan's theory that Racism became a social construct invented by the upper class to construct control after 1676.
In terms of the Origin Debate, I have to initially agree with Morgan in that slavery preceded racism, but then I agree with Jordan that the two were causes and effects of each other. In accordance with Morgan, slavery came first. In John Rolfe's notes about the first blacks brought to Virginia, he paid them little attention and treated them as he would any white servant. To me this shows that racism was not inherent in Virginian slavery. But soon after, as the black population grew and the elites needed an way to keep a servant class, they developed minor racist tendencies in order to win white servants to their side. These tendencies grew as slavery became more entrenched in the colonies and the two became causes and effects of one another.
The thesis I find most compelling about the origins of slavery and racism is Degler’s. I agree that racism did precede slavery because in order for such as cruel and harsh system to exist there had to already be strong feelings against a group, in this case Africans. The racism can be observed as Degler points out in the different treatment African slaves had to white indentured servants.
11 comments:
I support Degler’s theory of racism coming before slavery, but I also agree a little with Fredrickson about them being simultaneous. Having laws written long before slavery became a common practice shows the beginnings of racism. The most significant to me is the record keeping of entry into the colonies. If there was not some sort of racism, why wasn’t a black person’s entry date written, considering how important it is was as an indentured servant? The implication of the missing information signifies the inequality of blacks arriving into Virginia.
The thesis on the origins of slavery and racism that I find the most compelling is Winthrop Jordan's argument. The reason I find his argument the most compelling is because I believe that both slavery and prejudice came about together. Jordan shows this with the statement on page 144 of Vaughan ". . .both slavery and prejudice were causes, both were effects constantly reacting upon each other, dynamically joining hands. . ." Although Jordan would later changes his mind in the book "White over Black", I still agree with most of his premises. Slavery and racism reached a fateful alliance in early America, and this combination of the two would have a stranglehold over the blacks for years to come.
In regards to the origins debate and which I find the most successful argument. I thought out of all the arguments that Winthrop Jordon's thesis was the most logical. In his thesis Jordon argues that "both slavery and prejudice were causes, both were effects constantly reacting upon each other, dynamically joining hangs to hustle the Negro down the road to complete degradation. I believe that this argument is valid because I believe that in order to enslave someone there has to be an extreme prejudice or hate against the race. Through out the readings that we have done this has been exhibited through the various examples of the hate of the African Americans as seen though how the masters treated them and the prejudice against them which is seen through the instances of just because they are African American they have to get a harsher penalty for a wrong doing then a white slave would get.
I believe that Morgan makes a really good point. Racisim seemed to be the only wedge that could go between blacks and whites. This way the planters would not have large scale rebellions involving both slaves and white indentured servants.
I find Morgan the most compelling because he argues that slavery originally didn’t come to North American without the influence of racism and that racism increased later in the 1670s and 1680s as the slave population increased. In this way, racism and slavery evolved together. I think it is pretty clear that Europeans thought they were better than Africans from the start or else they wouldn’t have chained them up and shipped them across the Atlantic. Maybe the feelings that initiated the African slave trade didn’t exactly stem from racism but the other factors that Morgan describes, such as Bacon’s Rebellion and slaves becoming the principal labor force, show how some sort of prejudice eventually led to racism as the slave population increased in North America.
I find Degler's thesis about the origins of slavery and racism the most compelling. He believed that blacks were debased from the start and they were never treated equally. Discrimination preceded slavery long before Africans came to Virginia. Slavery and slave laws, Degler felt, were a reflection of the attitudes of the English people. I also buy into James Ballagh's argument that blacks were technically indentured servants first, because Africans could not legally be slaves unless the law said so.
To me the better argument was Morgans that racism was a product of slavery, which was encouraged and supported by white elites. Morgan argues that the elite developed this as a way to protect themselves from a rebellious servant and slave class. Morgan also adds that racism isn't a nessesity until a large need and population of Africans emerged in the late 1600's.
The Handlins' argument seems to make the most compelling case for me, along with the ideas of Ballagh and Russell. The Handlins' thesis claims that slavery came about late in 1600's, while racism came after the institution of slavery was in place. They mention that the Africans in North America stood out among the other settlers and it is not surprising that the class focused English exploited such differences. I think that racism seemed to come about around the time slavery came to be a legal institution but I do not think it was as strong as Degler claims. The cases of free blacks in early America help promote my belief, and make me think that slavery was not set in stone as soon as Africans set foot into the New World.
I support Morgan's theory of racism coming after Bacon's Rebellion in 1676 but I also believe that Fredrickson has a point with the Societal Racism. I believe that we all have a sense of implict and explicit Racism deep down and that has been there for hundreds of years with the "fear of the unknown" and the "fear of what is known or what is thought to be known". But I also support Morgan's theory that Racism became a social construct invented by the upper class to construct control after 1676.
In terms of the Origin Debate, I have to initially agree with Morgan in that slavery preceded racism, but then I agree with Jordan that the two were causes and effects of each other. In accordance with Morgan, slavery came first. In John Rolfe's notes about the first blacks brought to Virginia, he paid them little attention and treated them as he would any white servant. To me this shows that racism was not inherent in Virginian slavery. But soon after, as the black population grew and the elites needed an way to keep a servant class, they developed minor racist tendencies in order to win white servants to their side. These tendencies grew as slavery became more entrenched in the colonies and the two became causes and effects of one another.
The thesis I find most compelling about the origins of slavery and racism is Degler’s. I agree that racism did precede slavery because in order for such as cruel and harsh system to exist there had to already be strong feelings against a group, in this case Africans. The racism can be observed as Degler points out in the different treatment African slaves had to white indentured servants.
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